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Age and Amorousness: A Survey of Swingers (Part of the Virtual Symposium)
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Age and Amorousness: A Survey of Swingers (Part of the Virtual Symposium) This blog entry is part of the first virtual symposium, an informal collection of bloggers who – purely for the hell of it – voted on a single topic (Age and Amorousness) and agreed, on or about Sept. 2, to post their interpretations of that topic. A continually updated list of participants can be found here: Participants List For The First Virtual Symposium Age And Amorousness One of the best attempts to codify the swinging community – to really get a handle on what its participants look like – was done by Edward M. Fernandes, who is now an assistant<b> professor </font></b>of psychology at Barton College. In late 2008 he published “The Swinging Paradigm: An Evaluation of the Marital and Sexual Satisfaction of Swingers,” which was based partly on a series of online surveys. I’ve got some basic quibbles with Fernandes. In his paper, he says that “Since there is little information regarding how individual male and female swingers evaluate their swinging experience, this study considers individual men and women swingers and not couples…” But the actual survey is written for swingers who swing as couples, or who at least are in couples. It doesn’t have options that comfortably fit how single swingers might answer. Furthermore, in his letter to webmasters, Fernandes states that the criteria for survey participation “are that participants must be: (1) over the age of 18, and (2) currently married or living together.” Fair’s fair: This most-likely unintentional bias reflects a bias held by some in the community who feel the only “real” swingers are couples who play… although what designation the solo people who play with them in threesomes should have eludes me. This complaint aside, though, Fernandes’s study represents some of the best academic explorations of the swinging community I’ve found. The paper offers an overview of the work that came before his. It’s a balanced view: In once case he cites a study which found that “couples that participated in swinging activities reported having strong, loving, and committed relationships, and lived otherwise traditional family lives,” but notes that “the assertions made by [that study’s author] were anecdotal at best and relied on his interviews with a small number of swingers at a swinger's resort in the west coast.” Waitaminute. Aren’t we supposed to be talking about Age and Amorousness? Well, yeah. But this blog's overall focus is how swingers are portrayed in the media. Furthermore, I’m a statistics nerd, and some of the more interesting aspects of the paper included a review of previously reported demographic and psychographic/attitudinal data, as well as that collected through Fernandes’s survey. For instance, 1971 data showed that swingers at a national swinging conference had a mean (average) age of 30, with a range between 28 and 45, while a 1988 study found swingers had a mean age of 40.7. Why the difference? Hard to know for sure, but it may be partly due to the way the data was collected – there’s no guarantee that intercepting people at a conference, as was done in 1971, will get a truly representative sample. It could be that younger swingers were more likely to attend a conference. Or it could be that in 1971, with the counterculture still running at full strength, swinging was a younger person’s game – at least, on average. Speaking of averages, if swingers’ ages ran the gauntlet between 28 and 45 in a sample, one would think the average would be a bit higher than 30 – and, in fact, other research done in 1998 put the figure at the late 30s. For his 2008 paper, Fernandes drew on surveys completed between February and March of that year among paying members of dating sites or clubs. (Temporary and free members weren’t given access to the survey link.) I’ll probably explore some of the other study findings in another post, but here’s the nut graph: “The average range of ages of both men and women was between thirty-six and forty-five years of age, and the sample was predominantly white. Less than 1% of the respondents were under twenty-five years of age; and about .3% of the sample was over the age of sixty-five.” I can see people in their early 20s holding off on swinging, or at least self-identifying as swingers… but wow! Zero point three percent of the sample was over 65? As it happens, Fernandes’s own research revealed that just over 4 percent of the male respondents were over 65, while nearly 2 percent of the females were. There’s a second quibble I have with Fernandes’s work: When he cites his statistical findings about the swinging community, he doesn’t give national (or, at least, North American) averages. He did collect and aggregate geographic data about participants, and I realize that by breaking down his sample he might lose some respondents… but knowing how close to “normal” swingers are would have been very interesting (again, to a statistics nerd). Here are the age breakouts from Fernandes’s survey (apologies for the eyestrain -- this blog interface isn't really set up for tables... and anyway, what sort of deviated prevert brings data tables into a swingers' blog?): Age of Participants Male % Female % Under 25 -- .9 -- 3.9 25 to 35 -- 16.2 -- 25.2 36 to 45 -- 29.2 -- 42.4 46 to 55 -- 32.3 -- 21.5 56 to 65 -- 17.2 -- 5.2 Over 65 -- 4.2 -- 1.8 And here, for good luck, are the same data based off the 2010 U.S. Census (apologies to my Canadian and other international readers – I may include the Canadian data soon, given this site’s strong Canadian footprint.) Note: for “Under 25” I included data from the 20-24 year old group, but excluded the 15 to 19 group: The Census breaks don’t line up perfectly with Fernandes, alas… Male % Female % 20-24 -- 10.1 -- 9.1 25 to 34 -- 18.9 -- 17.6 35 to 44 -- 18.7 -- 17.7 45 to 54 -- 20.3 -- 19.7 55 to 64 -- 16.1 -- 18.5 Over 65 -- 15.9 -- 17.4 My gut – and this is dangerous ground, because gut work has no place in statistics – but my gut says that Fernandes’s figures for swinging participation among the over 65 set are out of date – and low. Would love to see someone prove or disprove it… A final note, regarding Age and Amorousness: Age can refer to a person, but it can also refer to the age – or length – of a relationship. Think swinging is inherently detrimental to a relationship? Here are Fernandes’s findings regarding the length of time swingers were in their relationships as of 2008: Response to the Question “How Long Have You Been in the Present Relationship?” Male % Female % Less than One Year -- 4.3 -- 4.6 1 to 3 years -- 9.8 -- 13.8 4 to 7 years -- 16.0 -- 19.6 8 to 10 years -- 9.8 -- 9.8 11 to 15 years -- 17.3 -- 14.4 16 to 20 years -- 12.2 -- 12.9 Over 20 years -- 30.6 -- 24.2 Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic |
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As to the subject of the symposium, I also figured one meaning of age to be as in, Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, but I wasn't up to the challenge. My gut feeling would be that swingers' average and mean ages would be higher, but....how do you differentiate between "lifestyle" people and those who simply shun monogamy and take their sex where they find it? Are organized events and clubs the difference? Is anyone in an open marriage a swinger? Become a member now and get a free tote bag.
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I see nothing wrong with data tables in a swingers blog. Nothing at all.  My personal anecdotal evidence supports Fernandes' over-65 survey figures. During my years as an organizer for a meet and greet as well as an attendee of clubs in the Mid-Atlantic area, it was rare to come across an over-65 couple. A single man of that age wasn't uncommon but single senior ladies were non-existent at clubs and public events. I chalk it up to the fact that those in that age range are mostly pre-free love era. I'm curious as to the drop in swinger percentages by those in relationships between 8-10 years.... Interesting. Thanks for "hosting", it's been great fun reading all the submissions!
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As to the subject of the symposium, I also figured one meaning of age to be as in, Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, but I wasn't up to the challenge. My gut feeling would be that swingers' average and mean ages would be higher, but....how do you differentiate between "lifestyle" people and those who simply shun monogamy and take their sex where they find it? Are organized events and clubs the difference? Is anyone in an open marriage a swinger? Regarding the media age: Methodologies differ, but in a survey where the answers are chosen from a list as opposed to written in (65+ for age, $100,000+ for income) often an upper-limit answer is treated as the lowest possible figure. Meaning that a lot of those happily 80-year-old swingers would be counted as 65... At some point either I or another blogger will explore what the term "swinger" constitutes, I hope.... and when that person does, be prepared for a lot of fireworks! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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I see nothing wrong with data tables in a swingers blog. Nothing at all. My personal anecdotal evidence supports Fernandes' over-65 survey figures. During my years as an organizer for a meet and greet as well as an attendee of clubs in the Mid-Atlantic area, it was rare to come across an over-65 couple. A single man of that age wasn't uncommon but single senior ladies were non-existent at clubs and public events. I chalk it up to the fact that those in that age range are mostly pre-free love era. I'm curious as to the drop in swinger percentages by those in relationships between 8-10 years.... Interesting. Thanks for "hosting", it's been great fun reading all the submissions! Your comment about people -- for lack of a better term -- aging into swinging is well taken. The youngest of the 65+ group includes the first of the Baby Boomers -- those folks who made up the youth counterculture of the 1960s. For them, nontraditional sexual arrangements would be more palatable than their older siblings (although the occasional enlightened older sibling is certainly a possibility). As for the drop in percentages... If we had the data tables (or when I take another look at the research, which I will) I may be able to give some survey-based answers... but I'll take a guess here: The younger swingers are those who both swung before their marriages (and may have actually met in the lifestyle). The older ones are those who are thoroughly content in their relationships, and just look at swinging as one other fun mutual activity... but they have the confidence that comes with a decades-long relationships to do so. Again, just a guess... and I'll take another look at some point at Fernandes's paper to see if he addresses this. But if we had the actual data, and could cross-tabulate, I'll bet we'd find some interesting correlations between his psychographic questions and the length of the relationships... Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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The statistics for the over-60's are off for sure. My guesstimation is that 60's women have more established social circles and may not have to look very far to find partners because they are probably already consciously aware of which men in their lives want to 'dote' on them. My mother used to say she could spot a man's interest by judging how much pleasure he took in seeing her smile. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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RE: Hardhard Tony's comment "My mother used to say she could spot a man's interest by judging how much pleasure he took in seeing her smile." What a great thing to remember your mother by! I was a swinger for a very brief time, and may eventually go back to it when I am more sure of what kind of sex I want for the rest of my life. Right now, I am exploring a LTR, when just back 9 months ago, I was exploring FWBs, and before that I was exploring The Lifestyle (say that in a deep broadcaster's voice) for about 5 months. Being in my 50s makes me somewhat less desirable than say someone in their 30s but it didn't make men not notice me. I think that with Poly becoming more and more acceptable, you will have less women wanting to say that they are swingers and more that would say being poly is what they really are. This was an interesting topic to write on. Please see my message to you about setting this up so that it is easier on you. Kk The observant make the best lovers, I may not do right, but I do write, I have bliss, joy, and happiness in my life, Kitkat Come check out my blog KItkat1415 check out this post by me Adventures In Body Grooming #39 April Topic Link: What Lies Beneath If April Showers Oh Bloody Hell What Kind Of Weather Turns Me On Bloggers Symposium 40
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RE: Hardhard Tony's comment "My mother used to say she could spot a man's interest by judging how much pleasure he took in seeing her smile." What a great thing to remember your mother by! I was a swinger for a very brief time, and may eventually go back to it when I am more sure of what kind of sex I want for the rest of my life. Right now, I am exploring a LTR, when just back 9 months ago, I was exploring FWBs, and before that I was exploring The Lifestyle (say that in a deep broadcaster's voice) for about 5 months. Being in my 50s makes me somewhat less desirable than say someone in their 30s but it didn't make men not notice me. I think that with Poly becoming more and more acceptable, you will have less women wanting to say that they are swingers and more that would say being poly is what they really are. This was an interesting topic to write on. Please see my message to you about setting this up so that it is easier on you. Kk The whole question of "Is polyamory swinging?" is another interesting one -- and from my own experience, polyamorous women will often (not always) rather emphatically say that they are not swingers. But again... how would they be categorized in Fernandes's research? As for making this whole process easier... haven't seen your message yet, but thank you! This was the first time out, and there was a learning curve for me (lesson #1 -- don't panic when the referring links don't go live: It's the site, not you). I also wanted to make sure that there was enough interest that those who did participate wouldn't feel their efforts had gone for naught... It's far from over -- I'm delighted to accept new offerings -- but even at this stage, 12 hours old, I can say it's been a raging success. And yes, I'd welcome a chance to put our heads together and streamline it -- and if anyone else has any thoughts, I'm all ears. Which is making typing difficult. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Thanks KitKat! HumorG-- in my experience swinging has been something married couples do. I've been the 'odd man' to two swinging married couples in the past 15 years. Both times my role was to 'fulfill the wife,' as I am not attracted to men. So that's the definition for me. As to my comment: I guess whether the women consider themselves to be swingers has to do with the 'openness' of their marriages. If they are having affairs their husband's didn't agree to, then it's probably more like cheating! Poly I tend to think of as having a wider range of arrangements. I've known a few poly relationships where 3 or more people all lived together and raised their children together. Whether or not the 3+ were all engaging in sex with one another was not necessarily part of it I think the takes on this (what makes a swinger) are very interesting, and I may well suggest it as one of the next virtual symposium topics. Damned if I know how I'll find something that fits into my "comments on swinging in the media" format (which I don't really want to break, at least for my personal posts), but the topic is worth exploring en masse, methinks. Of course, the voters will have the final say... As for polyamorous... well, the word literally means "loving many." Very different than swinging, yes. A good, chewy topic! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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I didn't really play it up big in my "Age and Amorousness" piece, but I was surprised to find that MILFs as a porn category ranks in the top 5. Or am I tipping my hand way, way too much? Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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I'm definitely going to do a deeper dive into Edward Fernandes's research. Like I said, it's a damned shame I can't do cross-tabs: I'd love to know how certain attributes from the 54 (?) question survey correlate with each other. There have been books published on the subject... but I suspect sexual mores, both personal and societal, have changed so much that most of the research done through the '70s and even the '80s has little more than curiosity or benchmarking value. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Congratulations! May we ask how many years? You're both awfully young for a 20+ anniversary... Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Some very good stats. A very interesting article about swingers too. Ty for sharing with us and it's like your a hot in blog land today. Looking forward in the next topic. Hugs V Yes we finally made it over to Vancouver Become a blog watcher sweet_vm
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9/2/2014 9:36 pm |
Interesting, I've wondered about the swinging lifestyle but not enough to delve into it myself I guess I'm shy lol but definitely informative reading humor Please, just call me diggy.
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Some very good stats. A very interesting article about swingers too. Ty for sharing with us and it's like your a hot in blog land today. Looking forward in the next topic. Hugs V Yes we finally made it over to Vancouver And... I think we're ALL hot in blog land today! I've seen a few instances of bloggers I know and appreciate finding each others' work. It's exactly what I wanted from the symposium. Now, next time we all have to figure out how to hold a symposium while reclining, eating a wonderful meal, and drinking ourselves into oblivion! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Interesting, I've wondered about the swinging lifestyle but not enough to delve into it myself I guess I'm shy lol but definitely informative reading humor Glad to provide an interesting read! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Ah, but can you trust the percentages of a muddily defined term? Interesting point, regarding "swinging" being phased out in favor of other terms... one worth noodling. May put up "Defining a swinger" as one of the topics for the next symposium... if enough people vote on it... As for standing back and watching the rest of us sort it out, don't I recall something about fools rushing in where -- Hey, waitaminute! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Interesting stats on swingers. It kinda matches up to what I have observed on this site and what I have been told about swinger parties: that participants are older and usually married. I also think swinging isn't something that 20-something's need to be considering (in the same way that I shudder when I see them on this site). In your twenties, especially if you are in college or grad school, you should be out learning about sex in the traditional ways. Go to parties and bars, date through the people you meet in classes, at the dorms, in your apartment. No other time in my life did I ever have as wide of a selection of potential lovers, my own age, with compatible lifestyles and life goals as I did in college and law school. I have two BIG aversions to swinging. 1. I only have really great sex when it's with someone I have an emotional attachment to and familiarity with. Anonymous sex with strangers does NOTHING for me. And if I am in a relationship, I wouldn't jeopardize it by having sex with anyone where such an attachment could form. 2. Disease. I don't care how much people claim they are tested and "safe" ... there's no test for HPV in men. People lie all the time. You could easily get one asshole with HIV or Hep C and an agenda to spread it to as many people as possible. It's just NOT worth the risk to me. That said, I have observed a number of swinger-bloggers on this site for the last 13 years who raved about how great it was and swore it wasn't a threat to their marriage - and then I watched the marriages implode. There are still some married swingers around, but I don't get the impression that swinging is the great lifestyle many profess it to be. When I first came to this site, swinging fascinated me, and I thought it might be a practical solution to having a long-term relationship but still keeping things sexually exciting for both parties. From what I have observed so far, I think it is very rarely successful. There were a bunch of hippy communes in the seventies where they practiced "free love" and there's nobody left in them. Jealousy, the desire to pair-bond, general dissatisfaction kicked in. The liberal, open-minded people who thought they'd love it - didn't. I'm still a but cynical about "the lifestyle." I may evolve and out-grow that attitude. I hear, that if you have the right partner and there is trust and whatever, it works. But I think that I will always be so inherently insecure that I will feel threatened if my lover wants to fuck other women. I will feel unloved (or uncherished) if my lover wants me to fuck other men. And I will be suspicious of the motivations of people of either sex, who want to have sex with persons who are in a committed relationship. I've known many men who didn't see my relationships as a barrier to trying to pursue me, and who blatantly tried to sabotage my relationships (even by just saying negative things about my boyfriend or plant seeds of doubt). And I know women poach other women's husbands unapologetically, if they think they are a "catch."
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The first study is really wild because it explains what some do when the seven year itch arrives too. Nobody in the lifestyle wants to be a substitute for a relationship counselor. Good catch on the data, though! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Interesting stats on swingers. It kinda matches up to what I have observed on this site and what I have been told about swinger parties: that participants are older and usually married. I also think swinging isn't something that 20-something's need to be considering (in the same way that I shudder when I see them on this site). In your twenties, especially if you are in college or grad school, you should be out learning about sex in the traditional ways. Go to parties and bars, date through the people you meet in classes, at the dorms, in your apartment. No other time in my life did I ever have as wide of a selection of potential lovers, my own age, with compatible lifestyles and life goals as I did in college and law school. I have two BIG aversions to swinging. 1. I only have really great sex when it's with someone I have an emotional attachment to and familiarity with. Anonymous sex with strangers does NOTHING for me. And if I am in a relationship, I wouldn't jeopardize it by having sex with anyone where such an attachment could form. 2. Disease. I don't care how much people claim they are tested and "safe" ... there's no test for HPV in men. People lie all the time. You could easily get one asshole with HIV or Hep C and an agenda to spread it to as many people as possible. It's just NOT worth the risk to me. That said, I have observed a number of swinger-bloggers on this site for the last 13 years who raved about how great it was and swore it wasn't a threat to their marriage - and then I watched the marriages implode. There are still some married swingers around, but I don't get the impression that swinging is the great lifestyle many profess it to be. When I first came to this site, swinging fascinated me, and I thought it might be a practical solution to having a long-term relationship but still keeping things sexually exciting for both parties. From what I have observed so far, I think it is very rarely successful. There were a bunch of hippy communes in the seventies where they practiced "free love" and there's nobody left in them. Jealousy, the desire to pair-bond, general dissatisfaction kicked in. The liberal, open-minded people who thought they'd love it - didn't. I'm still a but cynical about "the lifestyle." I may evolve and out-grow that attitude. I hear, that if you have the right partner and there is trust and whatever, it works. But I think that I will always be so inherently insecure that I will feel threatened if my lover wants to fuck other women. I will feel unloved (or uncherished) if my lover wants me to fuck other men. And I will be suspicious of the motivations of people of either sex, who want to have sex with persons who are in a committed relationship. I've known many men who didn't see my relationships as a barrier to trying to pursue me, and who blatantly tried to sabotage my relationships (even by just saying negative things about my boyfriend or plant seeds of doubt). And I know women poach other women's husbands unapologetically, if they think they are a "catch." I'm a little hesitant to agree with your comment about 20-somethings not exploring swinging in favor of other dating/sexual opportunities... but I'll also say that you're right about making sure they explore the opportunities available to them. All opportunities. (For what it's worth, I went to my first club when I was 30... and it was both a life-changing and nerve-wracking experience.) Including an emotional component when having sex absolutely does add something to it... but there are people who can have really good sex with people they enjoy as friends (as in couples who swing with each other), as well as people who get off on everything from gang bangs to being watched to, I dunno, having their feet anointed with cashew butter. But there are very few sexual practices which work for everyone, and if one in particular doesn't work for you... don't do it! (And please, please, resist having someone try to force you into it.) Disease is a risk. There's simply no getting around that. Latex condoms will help, but there are all sorts of things that can crawl around 'em, or be transmitted through oral activities. This is a real concern, and a real trade-off, much in the way getting into a car is. And yes, while I don't have statistics at my fingertips, chances are being in a car is somewhat safer than casual sex. I wonder how many of those swinger-bloggers whose marriages imploded would say swinging was an active cause? It may well be... but the number-one cause of marriage failure is financial differences (talk to any marriage counselor about this if you don't believe me). Can swinging put a strain on an unhealthy marriage. Sure... but so can credit cards. I'm not saying these sorts of stresses on swinging couples don't happen -- they absolutely, positively do -- but I've also known swinging couples who do so happily, with lots of communication, and who have been together for decades. (And you do note that it can work -- just as I note that it can cause problems.) Women may poach -- I'm sure some do, as do some men -- but I've also known women at clubs who kiddingly (but with a serious undertone) say that they wanted men to be like library books -- eminently returnable once they're done flipping through them. Good, good comments -- and it sounds as though swinging isn't something you'd enjoy, much as I don't think I'd especially enjoy skydiving. I'm not going skydiving! If you're not going to enjoy swinging, you shouldn't go skydiving either. And... as I mentioned before, I'm probably going to take another crack at some of the study's findings. Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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Wow. I could take everything you've brought up in this well-considered and well-articulated post and, with a little tweaking, turn it into a "topics couples should discuss before considering swinging" post. Nicely done. I'm a little hesitant to agree with your comment about 20-somethings not exploring swinging in favor of other dating/sexual opportunities... but I'll also say that you're right about making sure they explore the opportunities available to them. All opportunities. (For what it's worth, I went to my first club when I was 30... and it was both a life-changing and nerve-wracking experience.) Including an emotional component when having sex absolutely does add something to it... but there are people who can have really good sex with people they enjoy as friends (as in couples who swing with each other), as well as people who get off on everything from gang bangs to being watched to, I dunno, having their feet anointed with cashew butter. But there are very few sexual practices which work for everyone, and if one in particular doesn't work for you... don't do it! (And please, please, resist having someone try to force you into it.) Disease is a risk. There's simply no getting around that. Latex condoms will help, but there are all sorts of things that can crawl around 'em, or be transmitted through oral activities. This is a real concern, and a real trade-off, much in the way getting into a car is. And yes, while I don't have statistics at my fingertips, chances are being in a car is somewhat safer than casual sex. I wonder how many of those swinger-bloggers whose marriages imploded would say swinging was an active cause? It may well be... but the number-one cause of marriage failure is financial differences (talk to any marriage counselor about this if you don't believe me). Can swinging put a strain on an unhealthy marriage. Sure... but so can credit cards. I'm not saying these sorts of stresses on swinging couples don't happen -- they absolutely, positively do -- but I've also known swinging couples who do so happily, with lots of communication, and who have been together for decades. (And you do note that it can work -- just as I note that it can cause problems.) Women may poach -- I'm sure some do, as do some men -- but I've also known women at clubs who kiddingly (but with a serious undertone) say that they wanted men to be like library books -- eminently returnable once they're done flipping through them. Good, good comments -- and it sounds as though swinging isn't something you'd enjoy, much as I don't think I'd especially enjoy skydiving. I'm not going skydiving! If you're not going to enjoy swinging, you shouldn't go skydiving either. And... as I mentioned before, I'm probably going to take another crack at some of the study's findings.  [image] I'm not sure if LadyUnlaced still has all of her old blogs up, but she's an example of someone who was exuberant about swinging and polyamory, hosting orgies at her home and various men over while her husband watched the kids, and is now divorcing (not sure it's final) with her husband having custody of the kids. NICE lady. She's been through the wringer. I'm not criticizing her. She wanted to pursue the lifestyle and part of her "dream" was also becoming a writer. She has published an erotic novel. But she is on a path which is also causing strain with her parents and sister. I can pretty certainly say, from everything I have read, that it was the sex stuff that caused the problems. There were many others before her, but their blogs and profiles have been deleted.
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Actually - that's me, my boyfriend at the time, and the instructor - and it's just kinda weirdly on-topic, isn't it? [image] I'm not sure if LadyUnlaced still has all of her old blogs up, but she's an example of someone who was exuberant about swinging and polyamory, hosting orgies at her home and various men over while her husband watched the kids, and is now divorcing (not sure it's final) with her husband having custody of the kids. NICE lady. She's been through the wringer. I'm not criticizing her. She wanted to pursue the lifestyle and part of her "dream" was also becoming a writer. She has published an erotic novel. But she is on a path which is also causing strain with her parents and sister. I can pretty certainly say, from everything I have read, that it was the sex stuff that caused the problems. There were many others before her, but their blogs and profiles have been deleted. Why, oh why, did I choose "skydiving" as my activity I won't do? I could have said bungee jumping, or hang gliding... (of course, she very well might be able to pull pictures of herself doing those activities as well)... Seriously, though: I'd be a damned fool not to acknowledge that exploring swinging has contributed to some couples' demise -- which is why it is not an activity to be entered into lightly. But again, I've also known couples for whom it has worked quite nicely... and as I play with the psychographic data in Fernandes's research, I'll have more hard facts on this. Now, I'll admit to a research bias when I do: the research is, at least nominally, among successful swinging couples (although a few questions do ask about stressers on the relationship). Swinging isn't for everyone, and I'll be the first to admit that. Hell, there are times when it isn't/wasn't for me, and under certain circumstances, it still isn't -- because, at least in my view, "swinging" encompasses a wide spectrum of activities. My point? Only that this has been a damned good discussion, and I hope you'll continue to give reactions as I post pieces about this study and other representations in the media... and that others will chime in. This sort of back-and-forth is exactly what I was hoping for out of this exercise... Everyone, not just lil_whimsical, has given me some direction for future posts. Nice going, folks! Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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*Laughing* Okay, game, set, and match to lil_whimsical... not because I'm conceding all of her points, but because she posted a picture of herself skydiving. This may represent the best rebuttal to any discussion I've had during my nearly 47 years... Why, oh why, did I choose "skydiving" as my activity I won't do? I could have said bungee jumping, or hang gliding... (of course, she very well might be able to pull pictures of herself doing those activities as well)... Seriously, though: I'd be a damned fool not to acknowledge that exploring swinging has contributed to some couples' demise -- which is why it is not an activity to be entered into lightly. But again, I've also known couples for whom it has worked quite nicely... and as I play with the psychographic data in Fernandes's research, I'll have more hard facts on this. Now, I'll admit to a research bias when I do: the research is, at least nominally, among successful swinging couples (although a few questions do ask about stressers on the relationship). Swinging isn't for everyone, and I'll be the first to admit that. Hell, there are times when it isn't/wasn't for me, and under certain circumstances, it still isn't -- because, at least in my view, "swinging" encompasses a wide spectrum of activities. My point? Only that this has been a damned good discussion, and I hope you'll continue to give reactions as I post pieces about this study and other representations in the media... and that others will chime in. This sort of back-and-forth is exactly what I was hoping for out of this exercise... Everyone, not just lil_whimsical, has given me some direction for future posts. Nice going, folks! I just thought it was funny that I happened to have a "skydiving threesome" with "kiss pass" just sitting here on the computer.
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Good luck with your new Symposium. Glad to see you are alive and well. Della Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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My gut – and this is dangerous ground, because gut work has no place in statistics – but my gut says that Fernandes’s figures for swinging participation among the over 65 set are out of date – and low. Would love to see someone prove or disprove it… _________________________________________________________ I too thought that the statistics for older individuals were pretty low as well....particularly for women, although I wonder how many women held fast to the old adage that "good girls don't get horny"....and simply didn't participate. I can tell you one thing....I am in what would be considered the golden age of my life... and everything still works in perfect unison as it did when I was 20 and my loins still ache when I need to be penetrated, I still cum very hard when properly stimulated...but I digress.... I was surprised that the numbers nearly decreased 50% for those from 45-55 with the women practically disappearing over the age of 65. 60 truly is the new 40!!happyf;
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My gut – and this is dangerous ground, because gut work has no place in statistics – but my gut says that Fernandes’s figures for swinging participation among the over 65 set are out of date – and low. Would love to see someone prove or disprove it… _________________________________________________________ I too thought that the statistics for older individuals were pretty low as well....particularly for women, although I wonder how many women held fast to the old adage that "good girls don't get horny"....and simply didn't participate. I can tell you one thing....I am in what would be considered the golden age of my life... and everything still works in perfect unison as it did when I was 20 and my loins still ache when I need to be penetrated, I still cum very hard when properly stimulated...but I digress.... I was surprised that the numbers nearly decreased 50% for those from 45-55 with the women practically disappearing over the age of 65. 60 truly is the new 40!!happyf; Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic
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